Diom wrote: ...I think it highlights that there needs to be rule that the Lions head coach should not be a current national coach with any of the 4 nations.

I think you need to go farther than that, the coach also needs to be from one of the 4 nations. The problem with Gatland as coach - and Henry before him, and Joe Schmidt in 4 years, perhaps - is that the Lions coaching job is not the dream ticket, as it was for McGeechan, or even a World Cup winner like Woodward.

It's just a means to an end, a stepping stone along the way to the real goal, coaching the All Blacks. The Lions can't continue to employ coaches who - simply by virtue of nationality and culture, not through any fault or failing of themselves - do not regard the Lions with the same reverence as do the players.

You could apply something similar to the players, that you had to be from the 4 nations or completed school there (so broadly speaking Faletau/Vunipola/Visser good, Maitland/Hines/Strauss bad).

Of course this is probably moot, as defeat on Saturday would probably make the demise of the Lions (after the 2017 tour, most likely) inevitable.

It's a horrible decision, and the selection as a whole (Heaslip, Youngs, Youngs etc...) brings up questions about whether he is playing his hand to bolster his contract with the WRU rather than objectively putting the Lions first. That should not be happening and I think it highlights that there needs to be rule that the Lions head coach should not be a current national coach with any of the 4 nations.

phatguerilla wrote: In any case I believe he was defending the 13 channel with bod at 12 for the try, so Davies should not be able to claim unfamiliarity in that position.

....

Before the tour a lot of people were claiming this was a chance for Gatland to set out his stall for the nz job but surely the tactics he's used are anathema to that position?

Yup, Davies was marking the wider channel, indeed you can see O'Driscoll screaming at him to leave O'Connor for him and drift onto Ashley Cooper. BOD nailed O'Connor, but Davies didn't react quick enough and got ran over.

As for the NZ job, the Kiwis like winning, and they really like beating the Aussies, so if Gatland wins it's still a plus for him.

Can't agree that Davies was played out of position, he played 12 plenty for his club, was shifted to 13 to accommodate Roberts if anything. In any case I believe he was defending the 13 channel with bod at 12 for the try, so Davies should not be able to claim unfamiliarity in that position.
Tbh I don't particularly like Davies as a player I think he's good going forward but headless if the pressure is on.

I also think that Gatland has made very poor selections and use of the bench this tour and has been lucky not to be caught out worse than he has been. AWJ was on the ground at one point last week, what would have happened if croft had come on for him? Tuilagi is the 23 this week but both wingers have picked up injuries on tour and both Farrell and Sexton can cover centre; is more centre cover necessary? I think dropping Heaslip is a very odd call too, the lions have gone from 5 line out options in the first test to 2 and a bit now, surely that will have a big impact?

Before the tour a lot of people were claiming this was a chance for Gatland to set out his stall for the nz job but surely the tactics he's used are anathema to that position?

If you add Healy at lh, poc at 2nd row and Warburton to 7 and its the team imo that gattie always wanted for the test series.

He has gone for it in that this is now his team playing his way. Its going to be brutal stuff from start to finish and the Aussies who have their own injury issues especially in backs will be battered by big men all day long. As I said he will be judged on Saturday.

In terms of the lions legacy gatland wants to win. He's a kiwi so it doesn't mean as much as it does to a woody. He's concerned with winning and adding to his CV for the big job at home. I don't buy the bs going around about keeping the wru and welsh public happy.
The welsh cannot complain about his management of their national team.

rossie wrote: Garland wants to win the series and has gone with what he knows in his quest for glory. He will be judged on Saturday.

Or, as has been suggested elsewhere, his day job will be easier if they lose with 10 Welshmen that win with 5. Of course he wants to win the series, but he has other considerations too.

I don't think he's gone for it, in fact the selection reeks of this halfassedness. (Check the Indo website for video of the team announcement, no assistant coaches, Irvine looks ready to smack Gatty, Gatty pretty much admits there was the mother of all rows).

If you're going for a monster pack and go-forward, why not stick Evans or Gray in for the ineffectual Parling? Why not play SOB at 6 instead of Lydiate and stick Tipuric at 7?

The other single digit picks (Hibbard, Faletau, Philips) strike me as marginal but fair enough, but the backs selections stink.

Davies is a liability: can't defend (can't even take direction from his betters, as Ashley Cooper's try showed), can't pass, and even if the stats suggest that Davies and BOD is a marginal call (it's not) then there are other issues raised: (1) you started the first test with 3 lions captains and are finishing with none of them. And your 15 now contains zero international captains. Are you absolutely sure you want to dump the only proven leader in your 15? (2) If you're selecting Davies over BOD because he scores a higher boshtastic metric, why not go the whole hog and select Tuilagi? (3) If not starting BOD is to accommodate the likelihood of Roberts failing to make full 80, then why not start Tuilagi at 12 (regardless of who's at 13)?

Elsewhere there's no reason to select 1/2p over Hogg - Hogg can kick just as well, provides more pace/physicality and the threat of a counterattack; and North is an accident waiting to happen, any time the Aussies ran out of ideas last week they just punted to his wing in the knowledge Folau would reclaim the ball. Gatland doesn't have the cop to switch his Gaelic footballer to the left wing, and let North (or Cuthbert, who can feel aggrieved too) play on the right.

I hope Gatty gets it right but he's most likely got it all wrong.

Best outcome: the Lions win, because otherwise the whole concept is under threat.
Least worst outcome: they get slapped out the gate, so the Lions at least die a relatively clean death and Gatland takes the kicking he deserves.
Absolute worst outcome: they lose by 5, the Lions concept dies a horrible lingering death in NZ, and we get to listen to Gatty whining about how much the Lions missed their captain.

P.S. "Garland"? Bloody smartphone autocorrect, it's all over the web today. But kind of apt, its Garlands or nothing for him now.

I've always felt that garlands preferred centre partnership for the test series would be Roberts and Davies. The points above are merely the ammo to justify it now Roberts is fit. Remember Davies is s specialist 13 himself and the form one of the 6ns who has played out of position to accomadate bod.
These lions selection reactions are so parochial its no wonder they rarely win a series. I've checked this am and the English think manu should be ahead of bod and Davies. They also think that the Young's should start. The Scots can't believe that bows is ahead of Maitland and that grey hasn't got a chance and the welsh think that tipuric should start ahead of sob.
There is some sympathy for bods legacy but most believe his time was up.

Garland wants to win the series and has gone with what he knows in his quest for glory. He will be judged on Saturday.

rossie wrote: I think whether we like it or not the writing was on the wall for bod. He has been whistled off the park at breakdown, had that sloppy kick from defence before try last week, had a say in poor lineout selection after try and then critisised lions tactics in an interview with French mag this week. Roberts was always coming in when fit and Davies is his regular partner so its not a big surprise.

I disagree, I don't know how anyone could say the writing was on the wall or that the selection was not a big surprise, particularly in light of the absence of leadership in the squad.

You highlighted his sloppy kick, but neglected to mention that JD was directly at fault for ACC try last week because he didn't trust BoD inside him. Ok JD is playing out of position in the last two tests but some stats for your consideration:

BoD - 9 carries for 26m (2.8m/carry), 23 tackles 0 missed
JD - 14 carries for 42m (3m/carry), 17 tackles 3 missed

Picture the scene at the weekend, Lions go into the lead by halftime (see last week and Wales numerous run ins with Aus of late) the second half will then by dominated by Aus with Lions defending in their 22 for large parts. Why would you then not select the person who has completed the most tackles without a miss from the two previous tests in your team?

I think whether we like it or not the writing was on the wall for bod. He has been whistled off the park at breakdown, had that sloppy kick from defence before try last week, had a say in poor lineout selection after try and then critisised lions tactics in an interview with French mag this week. Roberts was always coming in when fit and Davies is his regular partner so its not a big surprise.
Jamie though IMO has played well and must be wondering what he did wrong. I was critical of him as Ireland captain but he found form on this tour.
Its still a very good team on paper with corbisiero steadying scrum and with six of pack welsh hopefully better lineout and driving maul. Its going to be route 1 stuff in backs but those men will take stopping. Worry is breakdown. Its not sobs strongest area.

Whatever about BOD, which I massively disagree with, I think its the lack of consistency between the Test teams that's gonna lose the series for us.

Must say that my excitement levels for Saturday have taken a nose dive.

Only two Englishmen and three Irishmen on the team. If they do badly then Gatland will get it big time. Big decision on BOD, especially not even the bench.

#Lions team: Halfpenny Bowe Davies Roberts North Sexton Phillips Corbisiero Hibbard A Jones AW Jones* Parling Lydiate O'Brien Faletau.

Replacements - T Youngs, Vunipola, Cole, Gray, Tipuric, Murray, Farrell, Tuilagi

no BOD and lesser no heaslip.
twitter is going mad with the top trends
#lions
Ireland
#justiceforBOD
#BOD
Warren Gatland
Welsh
Wales
Davies
Australia

He was definitely targeted but I felt that he didn't live up to his own high standards. Youngs I thought did well but your right himself and Heaslip have to take some criticism for the penalty at the base of the scrum. That said the ref was dire.

Philips was poor but to be fairs the Aussies targeted him and gave him no room to play. I thought Ben Young's was very poor when he came on and remember it was him at base of scrum for last penalty. I can't remember a positive from him at all. Philips tried to influence game but met a wall of Aussies every time.
I think there will be minimal changes to the team if any.

Your probably right but they do need to do something to change up the backrow.

Warburton wont be dropped. Croft might drop from the 23 with Obrien coming to bench with Tupiric starting.