Rodney isn't named in the team so I'm fairly sure the coaches think he would struggle and based on the saracens game they'd have a point.
Likewise Archer while not being embarrassed any more is not exactly dependable although is being given a chance to prove himself. Afaik he gave away a penalty against Aus when their scrum was down to 7 men so he still has a ways to go.
Even so I think with a top notch pack around them both Archer and Rodney could do ok but in this case as I already said there will either be a tired Tuohy or a lightweight backrower behind Archer and the combination in particular is what really worries me.

If you don't think you are stereo typing archer then I assume that you don't think that Rodney has earned his call up and that he would also struggle against Saxons.

All 4 Irish provinces have scrummaged well this season. In fact its been very rare that they have been under significant pressure against foreign opposition.

rossie wrote:
There's a lot of stereo typing in the last paragraph there. If you are applying previous seasons form then Rodney would be nowhere near the Ireland squad. However the change to the scrum laws have helped him immensely and the same applies to archer. So much so that he and botha are interchangeable now.

I don't think its stereotyping really but even if that were true you must agree that the odds are against him being able to scrummage effectively with a tiring Tuohy or some backrowers thrown in the second row behind him?

phatguerilla wrote:

FACECUTTR wrote: No Rodney but hopefully the camp teaches him a few things and he keeps improving. Marmion on the bench and Boss starting !!! Marmion is far better and I cannot understand it at all !!

The point has been made elsewhere that the threat of suspension may have forced the coaches hand here. Afaik Foley is in charge of the Wolfhounds but this team would seem to have Joe's hands all over it imo. With that in mind he's not the type to drop players into teams that haven't trained or whatever during the week unless they're experienced and proven options. Besides realistically Marmion is a bench option for Ireland this season (although I'd play him against Italy) so this gives Ireland a chance to assess his potential as an impact sub (obviously he has loads of potential in this role, but might as well see it). There's also the old Leinster pairing aspect to the choice which also makes sense and might hopefully give a hastily brought together wolfhounds some fluidity.

Otherwise its an exciting wolfhounds team although my excitement is somewhat tempered by Madigan at 10, hopefully there are a few preplanned moves to run otherwise Henshaw might not see much ball time.

I don't know anything about the opposition players but the Saxons/England always have tons of beef up front that's a given. Neither Tuohy nor Henderson are exceptional in the scrum imo and Diack/Copeland as second row cover and Archer as TH replacement is asking for trouble in the second half in particular.

There's a lot of stereo typing in the last paragraph there. If you are applying previous seasons form then Rodney would be nowhere near the Ireland squad. However the change to the scrum laws have helped him immensely and the same applies to archer. So much so that he and botha are interchangeable now.

Sol_ie wrote:

RogueXV wrote: Obviously, Rodney's omission means he'll be on the bench against Scotland.

Bench? Joe is going to give him O'Driscolls jersey.

I suppose Rodney IS slightly more mobile...

any unoffical Clan meet up to watch this game?

RogueXV wrote: Obviously, Rodney's omission means he'll be on the bench against Scotland.

Bench? Joe is going to give him O'Driscolls jersey.

I think it's as simple as Schmidt views Marmion as Ireland's 4th choice scrumhalf at the moment. I'm sure he's smart enough to know Marmion could easily leap to 2nd choice, but JS will wait until the Argentina games in June to assess the situation. Good to see Henshaw starting. He didn't necessarily cover himself in glory the last time out at international level. He'll be putting in his case for starting time in Argentina himself. This 6 Nations is probably beyond him barring injury to a couple of players.

Obviously, Rodney's omission means he'll be on the bench against Scotland.

wp_rathead wrote: Keiran on bench is a puzzlier, seemingly that puts him as 4th choice SH in Schmidts plans?

He's had a citing hanging over him all week, that's probably the reason.

I cannot express how much i despise the Saxon captain Calum Clarke..

Dunno how Jones got the FB Slot- been very average for Munster all season. Robbie at 15 and Cave at 13 makes more sense, then Zebo could replace Cave and go FB and Henshaw go 13..

Keiran on bench is a puzzlier, seemingly that puts him as 4th choice SH in Schmidts plans?

phatguerilla wrote: Afaik Foley is in charge of the Wolfhounds but this team would seem to have Joe's hands all over it imo.

And that's absolutely how it should be be. No point in having what amounts to a feeder team run by someone else.

Re: Boss over Marmion.

I guess JS wants to balance giving yoing players a chance with getting a result. Winning gives great momentum and confidence. Thus he needs a few experienced guys in the team like Boss to manage the younger guys, as he doesn't need to have a young team get a hiding.

Boss is a smart, versatile and experienced player. I guess he will be off after an hour at which stage the match will be more settled. Good entrance for Marmion. Also, my guess is that Boss is fresher, having played a lot less this year than Marmion, who just might need some rest time.

FACECUTTR wrote: No Rodney but hopefully the camp teaches him a few things and he keeps improving. Marmion on the bench and Boss starting !!! Marmion is far better and I cannot understand it at all !!

The point has been made elsewhere that the threat of suspension may have forced the coaches hand here. Afaik Foley is in charge of the Wolfhounds but this team would seem to have Joe's hands all over it imo. With that in mind he's not the type to drop players into teams that haven't trained or whatever during the week unless they're experienced and proven options. Besides realistically Marmion is a bench option for Ireland this season (although I'd play him against Italy) so this gives Ireland a chance to assess his potential as an impact sub (obviously he has loads of potential in this role, but might as well see it). There's also the old Leinster pairing aspect to the choice which also makes sense and might hopefully give a hastily brought together wolfhounds some fluidity.

Otherwise its an exciting wolfhounds team although my excitement is somewhat tempered by Madigan at 10, hopefully there are a few preplanned moves to run otherwise Henshaw might not see much ball time.

I don't know anything about the opposition players but the Saxons/England always have tons of beef up front that's a given. Neither Tuohy nor Henderson are exceptional in the scrum imo and Diack/Copeland as second row cover and Archer as TH replacement is asking for trouble in the second half in particular.

Diom wrote: Anyone else dislike the whole "wolfhounds"/"saxons" thing?

If you're talking about the team names, then for me "meh" is the best word to describe my feelings. I think it's marginally better than calling them the A teams, and I'm sure it makes the games easier to market, and that's the bottom line.

I do like the idea of the games themselves though, because I think we need a stepping stone between provincial and full international rugby. It also works out well this weekend because there's feck all other rugby on the box.

As far as our team for the game on Saturday is concerned, I find some of the selections a little baffling. I don't like to see players with loads of international caps starting ahead of an up and coming player (read Boss ahead of Marmion in this case). Everyone knows what Boss offers, and it's not like he needs game time because he's coming back from injury does he?

One positive I'd draw from the selection is it implies to me that Schmidt rates Robbie above Cave as a long term successor to BOD.

Finally, while I do look forward to these games, they always end up descending into a shambles in the second half as both coaches make wholesale changes.

Like the Wolfhounds. Don't like the Saxons.

Cave at 12 as well? Understand he's played there before but an A international is probably a higher level than he's done before.
Can't understand Boss starting either.

Anyone else dislike the whole "wolfhounds"/"saxons" thing?