Wasn't necessarily saying that Toulouse should be seeded higher than Munster, just that there should be less daylight between them. The point is, as with most systems, there are flaws with using the points gained in the pool stage to seed the clubs for the knockout stages. I'm not sure there clearly is a better way to do it maybe a 2 leg semifinal is the answer, but I'm comfortable enough with saying that if you win your quarterfinal match you're probably just as deserving of a home semi draw as any team left in the competition regardless of seed.

RogueXV wrote:

RonanL wrote: Bit of an aside, but I think the way the semi finals are drawn is a bit gammy - I think the top seeded teams after the league phase should get the advantage in the semi final stage as well as the quarters.

At first I was thinking this myself especially when I considered that in the American football playoffs the higher seeded team always gets the home advantage. But in American football the seedings are established by a 16 game schedule with a number of them against teams outside a team's division (pool). So this helps a little to balance out the strength of a team's pool. This doesn't happen in the HEC so we are left with Munster seeded #1 and Toulouse #6. I'm not convinced that is accurate especially where Munster are concerned. So drawing to decide who gets a home semifinal isn't as "gammy" as on first glance.

but munster won six out of six. toulouse lost 2. seems fair. a team cant live on history.
this season is when it matters

RonanL wrote: Bit of an aside, but I think the way the semi finals are drawn is a bit gammy - I think the top seeded teams after the league phase should get the advantage in the semi final stage as well as the quarters.

At first I was thinking this myself especially when I considered that in the American football playoffs the higher seeded team always gets the home advantage. But in American football the seedings are established by a 16 game schedule with a number of them against teams outside a team's division (pool). So this helps a little to balance out the strength of a team's pool. This doesn't happen in the HEC so we are left with Munster seeded #1 and Toulouse #6. I'm not convinced that is accurate especially where Munster are concerned. So drawing to decide who gets a home semifinal isn't as "gammy" as on first glance.

does anyone know what ruan pienner said to the ref vs clermont at 31.06 and a quick tap and gp try was disallowed for not taken in the right spot

after watching the rest of the match ulster were robbed. 5times the ref warned castre but still didnt bin anyone, heinze was grapping 2ulster men of the ball and only got a speach few mins later he runs in takes out a ulster defender on the line, player with ball scores a try.

Darragh507 wrote: so am i right in saying if any of the irish teams win the thing, we are in again next year????

YES, come on munster ulster leinster

so am i right in saying if any of the irish teams win the thing, we are in again next year????

not a bad idea at all.

RonanL wrote: Bit of an aside, but I think the way the semi finals are drawn is a bit gammy - I think the top seeded teams after the league phase should get the advantage in the semi final stage as well as the quarters.

the way id like to see it pan out if top seeds from them groups to have home Qf (as it is now)

then who ever is drawn in the semi final the top seed of the two has a choice to see who plays the first game home or away. this will give both teams more money from a home semi final and one extra game a year wont kill them. agg score from both games. winner through to final

Borders no.2 wrote: I agree RonanL top seeded team should get home s/f as well. As it turned out Munster did and will have two home games to reach the final.

Leinster will be away in the semi (should see off Cardiff) but being honest they came through a very weak pool so I think it'd be a bit unfair to give two teams a home path to the final. It would punish teams like Clermont who are away for the quarters despite winning a very tough pool. The seedings in theory should help but in reality don't as a team like Bath were 2nd seeds based on some good results a few years back but they are well off the radar now as a serious outfit. Loads more examples of teams being seeded a bit falsely. London Irish looked like a coming side a few years back and got a good seeding as a result but look in a bit of disarray at the moment. You never know what some of the French teams will deliver and how much interest they'll show. A team like Ulster get Pienaar et al in and that helps turn them around, things are constantly changing.

The seedings are based on then rankings after the pool stages and Sarries if anything were in a far weaker pool than Leinster, Biarritz have been woeful most of the season, Ospreys are in transition after losing the likes of Powell/Byrne/Tiata and then Treviso who are a decent team but at HEC level barely bottom tier.

Borders no.2 wrote: As for the games themselves, Munster v Ulster is fascinating, unlike a lot of teams I don't think Ulster will fear Thomond Park, they have the pack to go head to head with them but I'd question Ulsters mentality in a tight game away from Ravenhill, they did well yesterday but didn't close the deal against a nervy Clermont, their failure to take anything from the away game to Leicester where they were on top for long stages would worry them too. Some of their away Rabo performances have been embarrassing. You'd have to back Munster.

I fancy Ulster for this one, the boost that the Leicester win gave them was clear to see in Clermont. No one would have given them a remote chance of coming away from ther with a bonus point before that. Saying that they are an injury away from becoming average again, one of their on field leaders Ferris/Pienaar/Wannenberg/Best or Muller will do for them. They need Cave back as well though, he's been on fire in recent weeks.

Borders no.2 wrote: Toulouse should come through to face them, Edinburgh have done really well in the Heineken, I have given Bradley criticism while he was here (and stand by it) but they've done well in that pool and he deserves credit. I think Toulouse have been a bit hit and miss so far but they know the score at this stage and should have too much for Edinburgh but it might be a tight contest. Hopefully Edinburgh will get a good crowd though to generate a bit of atmosphere.

Leinster should deal with Cardiff, Cardiff are a side that offer few surprises.

If Edinburgh play half as well as they did against Irish they have a great chance against Toulouse who are not the team of old. Edinburgh played with great confidence today and in Visser they have a try machine. Was seriously impressed with their outhalf Laidlaw too..

Borders no.2 wrote: Saracens v Clermont is interesting, Saracens to win a very tight contest imo. Think Leinster might be happier to see Saracens through with the prospect of turning Wembley into a home venue for the semis rather than going to the bear pit of Stade Michelin.

Agreed far more worrying for Leinster will be the very real prospect that Clermont will bounce Sarries and have a home semi-final advantage (probably played at the 40k capcity Stade de Gerland in Lyon as their own ground at 18K capacity is too small for a Semi).

Borders no.2 wrote: Wouldn't bet against an all Irish final but lets see the lie of the land in terms of form, momentum, injuries etc post 6 nations. Fingers crossed from a Conancht viewpoint.

An all Irish final would be great, but as long as one of the three wins the damn thing I couldn't care who wins (although an Ulster win would be good for my household... :whistle: )

id have to agree wit u on all a predictions borders altho id say edinburu cud cause the upset.
agree on ure semi predictions aswell so shud b all irish final. only potential hiccup cud b if leinster have 2 go to france.

I agree RonanL top seeded team should get home s/f as well. As it turned out Munster did and will have two home games to reach the final.

Leinster will be away in the semi (should see off Cardiff) but being honest they came through a very weak pool so I think it'd be a bit unfair to give two teams a home path to the final. It would punish teams like Clermont who are away for the quarters despite winning a very tough pool. The seedings in theory should help but in reality don't as a team like Bath were 2nd seeds based on some good results a few years back but they are well off the radar now as a serious outfit. Loads more examples of teams being seeded a bit falsely. London Irish looked like a coming side a few years back and got a good seeding as a result but look in a bit of disarray at the moment. You never know what some of the French teams will deliver and how much interest they'll show. A team like Ulster get Pienaar et al in and that helps turn them around, things are constantly changing.

As for the games themselves, Munster v Ulster is fascinating, unlike a lot of teams I don't think Ulster will fear Thomond Park, they have the pack to go head to head with them but I'd question Ulsters mentality in a tight game away from Ravenhill, they did well yesterday but didn't close the deal against a nervy Clermont, their failure to take anything from the away game to Leicester where they were on top for long stages would worry them too. Some of their away Rabo performances have been embarrassing. You'd have to back Munster.

Toulouse should come through to face them, Edinburgh have done really well in the Heineken, I have given Bradley criticism while he was here (and stand by it) but they've done well in that pool and he deserves credit. I think Toulouse have been a bit hit and miss so far but they know the score at this stage and should have too much for Edinburgh but it might be a tight contest. Hopefully Edinburgh will get a good crowd though to generate a bit of atmosphere.

Leinster should deal with Cardiff, Cardiff are a side that offer few surprises.

Saracens v Clermont is interesting, Saracens to win a very tight contest imo. Think Leinster might be happier to see Saracens through with the prospect of turning Wembley into a home venue for the semis rather than going to the bear pit of Stade Michelin.

Wouldn't bet against an all Irish final but lets see the lie of the land in terms of form, momentum, injuries etc post 6 nations. Fingers crossed from a Conancht viewpoint.

Bit of an aside, but I think the way the semi finals are drawn is a bit gammy - I think the top seeded teams after the league phase should get the advantage in the semi final stage as well as the quarters.

As a Connacht man wouldn't it be great to have an all Irish final and Heineken cup sorted for next year

Munster v Ulster;
Leinster v Cardiff;
Edinburgh v Toulouse;
Saracens v Clermont.

at least we know one irish team into the semi and cardiff is not to hard for leibster at home

HC Semi Final Draw:
Saracens or Clermont v Leinster or Cardiff.
Munster or Ulster v Edinburgh or Toulouse.

will be hard on leinster in semi but good for munster/ulster home semi.

dream is still alive of a munster/ulster vs leinster final

Ulster were very impressive at the same time Leicester fell apart Ben Young hadnt a clue where he was from about 25 minutes on, and Tuilangni or whatever its spelt was getting rasted by trimble, and that Cole is a hot head second time ive watched him and second time ive seen him getting the Bin....

Ulster looked like world-beaters tonight! :blink: