No problem with your opinions connacht exile and sea point. in hindsight its probably a conversation better suited to a few high stools and pints of creamies.

+1

MOD was a warrior who will go down as an Munster Legend and with Nagle in the folds I don't think there'll be the same the pains in the transition as in other positions.

rossie wrote: Never took to the Murphys myself, too far south for me and it doesnt travel well!

on a side note Mick o driscoll has announced his retirement at end of this season. Decent servant who will be missed. Thats MOD, Fla, the bull and Mcgahan gone with a lot of uncertainty about Leamys injury and Wallaces rehab. Add in the departures of Mafi and O leary and the loss of Warwick last season and thats a lot of experience and leadership gone out of a dressing room in a couple of seasons.
Big job for the incoming coach, not even to mention putting POC, ROG and 1 or 2 others back in their place within team.

This is the Leamy that was given a two year central contract by the IRFU PCRG (read Kidney) only two months back, surely not?

Problem lies in the fact that Kidney flogged his golden generation and didn't develop the core that should be ready now. McGahan has at least brought a few players through in the last couple of seasons, but his hands were tied really becasue if ye had had a fallow period in terms of results he would have been out on his ear toute suite. He certainly would not have had the scope that Kidney would have had (with two HEC Cups in the bag) to make some radical selectorial changes.

In fairness you have bought in a bit of exprience as well in DuPreez, Botha, Murphy and you'll have Downey & Laulala next year with no doubt one or two more if injuries force some more out.

Because of Kidneys largesse and the stadium development there was always going to be a risk of a period where Munster would just have to roll the dice, not all doom and gloom though Gatland did it when he was given the Ireland hot seat and uncovered our golden generation (sadly which in my eyes never really fulfiled it's potential under either O'Sullivan or Kidney)....

Never took to the Murphys myself, too far south for me and it doesnt travel well!

on a side note Mick o driscoll has announced his retirement at end of this season. Decent servant who will be missed. Thats MOD, Fla, the bull and Mcgahan gone with a lot of uncertainty about Leamys injury and Wallaces rehab. Add in the departures of Mafi and O leary and the loss of Warwick last season and thats a lot of experience and leadership gone out of a dressing room in a couple of seasons.
Big job for the incoming coach, not even to mention putting POC, ROG and 1 or 2 others back in their place within team.

ummm, wrote: Don't do it, SP, it's a trap.

They drink Murphy's down there.

Jeeebus thanks Ummm, pulled me back from the brink...

I'll excuse most things from Munster, but Murphys? Sorry, it's a langers drink....

Don't do it, SP, it's a trap.

They drink Murphy's down there.

rossie wrote: No problem with your opinions connacht exile and sea point. in hindsight its probably a conversation better suited to a few high stools and pints of creamies.

Now you're talking my language....

No problem with your opinions connacht exile and sea point. in hindsight its probably a conversation better suited to a few high stools and pints of creamies.

salmson wrote: While we're on the subject of vilifying players who tried to maim BOD, anyone want to have a go at Marcus Horan for his off-the-ball body check that left our gallant captain playing the World Cup with one arm? :evil:

I think most Munster fans would acknowledge admiration for Horan for surviving in scrums enough to allow Munster to be competitve and for his supplimentary wing play. He was never a traditional Munster hard man so a cheeky body check was sort of in keeping really...

Quite apt you brought it up in this discussion really because that incident tells you everything you need to know about O'Driscoll as a man and a rugby player.

rossie wrote: Connacht exile,
I wasnt aware of the comments in his book or even that he had a book so merely assumed your comments were based on tackle and defensive attitude in immediate aftermath and i agree that it was a terrible tackle and the attitude of every one involved in the aftermath should have been better.

I am aware that many kiwi and southern hemisphere rugby fans believe that we in ireland overreacted to this tackle and should have gotten over it quicker than we have done. We as a rugby nation have taken an extrordinarily long time to put this, admittedly unsavoury, incident behind us.
I can only assume, as i dont know the man personally and as a result refrain from commenting on his charector off the field, that he shares this view and feels the unexpected and unprecedented vilification he recieved in the irish and british media was way over the top and extremely damaging to him personally.
Those same Media forgave Eric Cantona and Trevor Brennan for attacking fans in the stands and the Rfu Dean Richards for bloodgate far quicker. Peter Clohesy stamped on an opposing players head and Alan Quinlan Gouged and were qiuckly forgiven which highlights the inconsistancy in attitudes in our media and subsequently our sporting public.
In addition to these points there were two people involved in this tackle but noone even mentions Kevin Mealamu but choose to target their anger at Umaga because he was the face of that all black team at a time that the lions felt they could go to New Zealand and win and ultimately failed and failed extremely expensively.
I also hope that he isnt employed by Munster Rugby but not because of that tackle but merely because i think there are better candidates out there for the job.

Hang on a sec Rossie, you're saying we and then talking about the media.

No offence but of course the media forgive and forget, for them it's only business, if the player is still active they (and their journal) don't want to be seen to be targeting the player by the player or their club or Union. They'll flag it at the time and then drop it quickly for fear of being cut off by the players club for future scoops...

From the Public perception though:

Not even going to bother with the Cantona thing, as Soccer is riddled with corruption top to bottom and the FA & British Media clearly run scared of Alex Ferguson and Man Utd. :pinch:

• The Claw got a 26 week ban so Justice was seen to be done.
• Quinnie got a 12 week ban and missed a Lions Tour so Justice was seen to be done.
• Trevor Brennan basically had his career ended by his ban so Justice was seen to be done.
• Dean Richards recieved a three year ban so Justice was seen to be done.

Tana Umaga played the next game, and then openly accused the victim of his assault of being a baby about it (despite the fact that it was the media who had pushed BO'D's case not the player himself).

If he had show the slightest hint of regret or remorse or acknowledgment of the assault (and lets not kid ourselves there were two of them involved so it was an assault not just a tackle gone wrong) then my position might have softened somewhat.

But his attitude and behaviour to me is the behaviour of an arrogant scumbag plain and simple, and I would have no hesitation in saying that if by some miracle Connacht had the opportunity to sign him I would end my support for my province if they did so plain and simple. I've been fortunate through my family to have known several generations of Connacht players across several decades and for Umaga to pull on the jersey in a playing or coaching capacity would seriously diminish it's lustre.

And with regards to Mealamu, I always include him in any disccusion relating to the O'Driscoll incident, but anyway this thread specifically realtes to Umaga and Munster and we're discussing his suitability or lack of it to be head coach of an Irish Province and as such (at the very least) subsidised by the IRFU who are in turn subsidised by Irish Rugby supporters...

While we're on the subject of vilifying players who tried to maim BOD, anyone want to have a go at Marcus Horan for his off-the-ball body check that left our gallant captain playing the World Cup with one arm? :evil:

I am aware that many kiwi and southern hemisphere rugby fans believe that we in ireland overreacted to this tackle and should have gotten over it quicker than we have done. We as a rugby nation have taken an extrordinarily long time to put this, admittedly unsavoury, incident behind us.

It wasn't just us Rossie it was all of Britain as well.

I can only assume, as i dont know the man personally and as a result refrain from commenting on his charector off the field, that he shares this view and feels the unexpected and unprecedented vilification he recieved in the irish and british media was way over the top and extremely damaging to him personally.

It probably was at the time but he wrote his book a year or two after which should have given him enough time to look at it again in a clearer/different light.

Those same Media forgave Eric Cantona and Trevor Brennan for attacking fans in the stands and the Rfu Dean Richards for bloodgate far quicker. Peter Clohesy stamped on an opposing players head and Alan Quinlan Gouged and were qiuckly forgiven which highlights the inconsistancy in attitudes in our media and subsequently our sporting public.

All those players you cited as examples were punished for those crimes.

Cantona (8 months) - Trevor Brennan (5 years) - Dean Richards (3 years) - Clohessy (1 year?) - Alan Quinlan (3 months and missed Lions tour)

They served a punishment and then came back and played and while I am not saying it is his fault that he wasn't punished. He could have shown humility about it. Trevor Brennan is his book showed remorse about what he did. Quinlan talks about how what he did was an accident and Leo Cullen never had any problem with or asked for him to be cited. He also apologized after the game to him if he'd caught him. Don't know if the others have written books if they have I haven't read them.

In addition to these points there were two people involved in this tackle but noone even mentions Kevin Mealamu but choose to target their anger at Umaga because he was the face of that all black team at a time that the lions felt they could go to New Zealand and win and ultimately failed and failed extremely expensively.

I think Meanamu is Human trash as well and if he was going for a job in Ireland I'd be saying the same thing about him.

I also hope that he isnt employed by Munster Rugby but not because of that tackle but merely because i think there are better candidates out there for the job.

I agree. There's masses of better backs coaches and having a rookie backs coach along with a rookie head manager is madness in my opinion. Munster are one of the top teams in Europe they can afford to get a top guy.

I also respect your opinion Rossie but we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

Connacht exile,
I wasnt aware of the comments in his book or even that he had a book so merely assumed your comments were based on tackle and defensive attitude in immediate aftermath and i agree that it was a terrible tackle and the attitude of every one involved in the aftermath should have been better.

I am aware that many kiwi and southern hemisphere rugby fans believe that we in ireland overreacted to this tackle and should have gotten over it quicker than we have done. We as a rugby nation have taken an extrordinarily long time to put this, admittedly unsavoury, incident behind us.
I can only assume, as i dont know the man personally and as a result refrain from commenting on his charector off the field, that he shares this view and feels the unexpected and unprecedented vilification he recieved in the irish and british media was way over the top and extremely damaging to him personally.
Those same Media forgave Eric Cantona and Trevor Brennan for attacking fans in the stands and the Rfu Dean Richards for bloodgate far quicker. Peter Clohesy stamped on an opposing players head and Alan Quinlan Gouged and were qiuckly forgiven which highlights the inconsistancy in attitudes in our media and subsequently our sporting public.
In addition to these points there were two people involved in this tackle but noone even mentions Kevin Mealamu but choose to target their anger at Umaga because he was the face of that all black team at a time that the lions felt they could go to New Zealand and win and ultimately failed and failed extremely expensively.
I also hope that he isnt employed by Munster Rugby but not because of that tackle but merely because i think there are better candidates out there for the job.

Fair point Borders

Connman wrote: I cant even understand what this Thread is doing on a Connacht Supporters Club Forum????? If McGahan is Leaving Munster so what...off with him!!

Thats why its in the other rugby section. It might not affect Connacht but its a big moment for Munster Rugby and as a consequence of that Irish rugby. Munster are at a key point in their transition similarly there a lot of Munster players who are at an important stage in their careers. Can a new coach advance Sherry, Nagle, O'Mahoney, Butler, Murray, Keatley, Zebo, Barnes, O'Dea and so forth as well as trying to bring Munster back to the top table?

Irish rugby needs 4 strong provinces to produce players for the national team. I'd hate to see Connacht supporters get caught up in the insular idea of the province being way more important than the national team that seems to be floated with increasing regularity recently.

Provincial Rugby is important but rugby in Ireland is judged on the national team. Does anyone think NZ will care if it turns out to be a Leinster v Ulster HC final. They will judge us on how we perform in the 3 tests down there this summer. Which nation has more respect internationally in the game at the moment Ireland or Wales? You all know the answer to that one.

I cant even understand what this Thread is doing on a Connacht Supporters Club Forum????? If McGahan is Leaving Munster so what...off with him!!

Umaga-Based on his coaching exerience and then his coaching success,why would he even be considered ?

Axel -For sure ,possibly an excellent candidate for the future, provincial and International ,but certainly not now .Remember Steve Staunton ? (Similar situation to a certain extent but same in that i think his position is being considered out of Hype and his playing career )