rossie wrote: Connacht exile,

I dont think you or anyone has the right to call a rugby player human trash for any reason and especially for an incident on a rugby field. The history of the game is littered with distasteful incidents many of which were carried out by top class professionals of their era.
BOD is a great player but things happen and sometmes we as a nation are a bit over protective of him.

That said i agree with everything else you said in your post. I can only assume that he interviewed well and 2nd interviews are on next week (according to Corcoran) so nothing is decided yet. Of the three mentioned(having researched him since last nite) Penney appears to be the most qualified by far so may yet get the head job. Whether umaga is on the ticket remains to be seen. There is strong talk of a new backs coach coming in as well tho so we will have to wait and see.

Nonsense he's entitled to his opinion as you are to yours, but frankly the behaviour by Umaga, Mealamu in the first instance Graham Henry, Willem Venter, the NZRU and their media lackies and not least the spineless IRB in the immidiate aftermath was disgusting and shameful on any level, it brought nothing but acute embarrassment on rugby as a whole. The incident was the most high profile one (spearing) up to that time, and the IRB had an opportunity to take control of the situation and properly punish Umaga, Mealamu to set the precendent (and we can see what's happened since with respect to citings and how they have become an absolute joke).

The fact that other players have been involved in unsavoury incidents does not make this one remotely more acceptable. And at the very least it shows that Umaga was a player of very questionable morals, overlooking the obvious issue with regards to his obvious lack of coaching ability, if he is the sort of person that Munster want running the show then in my opinion those in charge at Munster rugby are doing a disservice to the provinces proud history.

I'm not sure that Axel is necessarirly ready as a coach for the Job yet, but at least he will have the respect of all supporters.

I dont think you or anyone has the right to call a rugby player human trash for any reason and especially for an incident on a rugby field. The history of the game is littered with distasteful incidents many of which were carried out by top class professionals of their era.

It was not just the the incident itself that I foundd distasteful but his attitude and behavior after. If he'd held his hands up and said sorry or it was unintentional and we didn't mean to hurt a player on purpose then I could forgive him but his behavior all the way through such as trashing him in his autobiography and when BOD rang him and he called him a 'Souk' (which means baby or Wimp in New Zealand) then that shows the type of mentality of a thug as well as breath-taking disrespect to a fellow professional. I respect your view and it's one I generally take but Umaga is for me the exception to a game played by gentlemen and therefore shouldn't treated as one.

My only consolation is that regardless of what he does with his life when there writing his obituary there gonna mention that speartackle. In a way by not apoligising it's a defining point in his career.

To get back to the tread I heard from some Kiwi friends of mine that there all extremely relieved that Penney is staying. Apparently he'd the next Joe Schmidct I think Munster made a mistake giving it to Foley so soon 2 years under Penney and then give him the reins would have made the most sense. It's a misstep by Munster imo.

I was told this morning that it looks like axel has gotten Head Coach job, finalising small details and should be announced this week.

Connacht exile,

I dont think you or anyone has the right to call a rugby player human trash for any reason and especially for an incident on a rugby field. The history of the game is littered with distasteful incidents many of which were carried out by top class professionals of their era.
BOD is a great player but things happen and sometmes we as a nation are a bit over protective of him.

That said i agree with everything else you said in your post. I can only assume that he interviewed well and 2nd interviews are on next week (according to Corcoran) so nothing is decided yet. Of the three mentioned(having researched him since last nite) Penney appears to be the most qualified by far so may yet get the head job. Whether umaga is on the ticket remains to be seen. There is strong talk of a new backs coach coming in as well tho so we will have to wait and see.

I don't understand for one moment the Umaga bit. Umaga was a failure at Toulon period and hasn't coached at a top level since afaik. While Leinster with Schmidt got a guy who wasn't a head coach before but had a coaching record which was extensive and quite successful. Munster need a guy who has done the apprenticeship had success at that level and is looking for the next step up. Not some "name" who was a good player but has zero experience off the pitch. Sport is littered with great players who were crap coaches.

I also personally think that Umaga is human trash and that an Irish team are thinking of giving him a job is ridiculous and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

rogue,

you are right BODs opinion and feelings wont come into it in any shape or form.

I have to say this one is from left field and taken me completely by surprise. Im not sure what umaga will bring to the table that Dougie wouldnt(as a backs coach) given the stated experience he has so this may be one of those kites that get flown occasionally. I agree though that munster need a better backs and head coach than currently in position.They dont necessarily have to be the same person tho and there may well be two appointments made. Ive never heard of the other guy mentioned but then id never heard of schmidt either prior to clermont.
Foley will be staying either in his current position or as head coach. im pretty sure of that. Maybe it will be all three of them with axel forwards, umaga backs and your man Head coach.
The squad is generally in good shape(when injuries clear) and all thats really required is two quality back up props for wian and bj.
After that it will just require a change in tactical approach, not a reinvention just a change, and some players roles within the team and team requirements of them clarified and accepted and Munster will be back on the road again.

The IMF wrote: Wow i wonder how that appointment would go down with BOD. He has never forgiven him for 2005.

They play each other 2 maybe 3 times a year and half the time BOD is injured. I don't think his opinion will be taken into consideration.

If they wanted change (and that might just be the players and not the Munster board) then Kirwan probably would be a better choice. Foley and EOS would offer little in the way of change and Umaga is too inexperienced at this stage to be head man. I wonder would Foley stick around for anything but the top spot?

brendanfanningrugby.wordpress.com/

Wow i wonder how that appointment would go down with BOD. He has never forgiven him for 2005.

Munsterfans is a site I used to enjoy viewing and it used be good as it wasn't just confined to rugby but current affairs, other sports, other teams etc and it used to be good to go there and maybe read through a thread about a Munster game if Connacht were playing the same night or if you hadn't seen the game etc.

There are a lot of posters on the site who are very knowledgeable on the game and always have interesting views but those numbers have been declining in the last 3/4 years as these interesting posters are either leaving the site or are lowering themselves to being dragged into debates with childish nonsense that has wrecked many good threads.

I used to be logged on to the site but haven't bothered re-registering after the site changed as there is just too much nonsense to trawl through to get the interesting points.

We are much smaller in number here but at least the threads are practical, are a chance for everyone to air their views and aren't blighted with 5 or more pages of tit for tat nonsense.

Lads i never thought that a forum whould have such an impact on you in the way mf seems to have.

Its an internet forum and as a result people can hide behind silly nicknames which can bring out the worst in people. Not all of them are munster fans either. some of the biggest shit stirrers i seen there are from here but thats all part of the craic! You must remember its a forum with a very large membership, i think the record for members logged on in one day is 750, so your bound to have a few asses hiding among them.By and large i find it to be a humerous and in many cases informative forum. I also go on Babbing Brook and uafc and they talk just as much shite there. Just as mf some do it for the rise and others just cant help themselves.

They have a thread on Connacht which by and large is very supportive and largely complimentary but there is banter between the likes of the outlaw(who i presume is here under a different name) and a few of the Munster lads but i for one enjoy their little snipes at each other.

On the Keatley issue, i was in Thomond tonite and for 30 minutes he was brilliant. He controlled the game, found some lovely touches inside their 22 and (most importantly) landed 4 lovely kicks. I thought to myself that this is more like it and that maybe he could be the longterm solution at 10. After 30 min tho he and the team seemed to lose concentration.The game became a mess for 20/30 min and he missed 2 very kickable penalties before cardiff took over and Munster were lucky to hold out for the win. 66% kicking conversion rate is just not good enuough and no matter how well he does in other aspects(which also need consistancy)he will never be rated unless he delivers the points from the tee.

connachtexile wrote:

I do have a problem though with the attidude of a very vocal group of concieted Munster Rugby supporters and self styled rugby experts on MF.Com who campaigned heavily to oust McGahan voraciously and pretty nastily, the same group that rubbish the other provinces player/mangagement and supporters consistenly as inferior (depsite all evicence to the contrary) and insist it is only banter, and the same ones that have styled themselves "Best Supporters in the World" (it wasn't actually the Dublin based media nor Sky who started it, they simply bought into it).

The chip on the shoulder thing which defined Munster Rugby in the lead up to the first HEC win was fine when you're an underdog struggling against greater odds, however that hasn't been true of Munster Rugby for a long time and there is a core that just come across as petty, petulant and pretty ignorant...

As someone who lived in Kerry for years most Munster Fans are the nicest folks ever but as a person who checks out all the provincial forums I have to agree with sea-point about the guys on the MF forum being D*ckheads. To be frank I'm surprised most of them don't have spinal injuries from clapping themselves on the back the whole time.

i no a few munster supporters living in limerick and cork who are nice and actually speak alot of good stuff about everything rugby, munster, connacht leinster and ireland. they look at everything threw both eyes.

if anyone goes on munster fans and i said this before elsewhere they speak a lot of sh1t. 'lets beat this team by40' or 'doc is gods gift'

look at any connacht tread there or write something, they wont be long saying how useless keatley was till he came to munster or that muldoon was afraid to leave connacht. big fish small pond.
but the first thing that will be thrown in your face will be, dog track. 'do they still play on the sand'

I do have a problem though with the attidude of a very vocal group of concieted Munster Rugby supporters and self styled rugby experts on MF.Com who campaigned heavily to oust McGahan voraciously and pretty nastily, the same group that rubbish the other provinces player/mangagement and supporters consistenly as inferior (depsite all evicence to the contrary) and insist it is only banter, and the same ones that have styled themselves "Best Supporters in the World" (it wasn't actually the Dublin based media nor Sky who started it, they simply bought into it).

The chip on the shoulder thing which defined Munster Rugby in the lead up to the first HEC win was fine when you're an underdog struggling against greater odds, however that hasn't been true of Munster Rugby for a long time and there is a core that just come across as petty, petulant and pretty ignorant...

As someone who lived in Kerry for years most Munster Fans are the nicest folks ever but as a person who checks out all the provincial forums I have to agree with sea-point about the guys on the MF forum being D*ckheads. To be frank I'm surprised most of them don't have spinal injuries from clapping themselves on the back the whole time.

rossie wrote: ouch! Seapoint, someone in red obvously upset you deeply in the past that you carry such bitterness towards allthings south of Galway!

McGahan wasnt popular with a lot of supporters because he persisted with a brand of rugby which wasnt suited to the players he had at the time and not because of his nationality.
You are right that he inherited an ageing team particularly in the pack but Munster has always evolved slowly and players were replaced in some cases almost unnoticed over the years.

He also got abuse from some quarters but Eric got that from a much smaller support base (with much lower expectations) when on losing run this season so Munster fans are far from unique there.

In relation to big money signings or lack of them, He brought in Botha and Du Preez both on big contracts and Dougie was also there on big money. The only difference was he spent the money in the front row where traditionally that was spent in the centre. He has also signed big bang casey who will be on decent coin. Downey too also and there is supposed to be at least 1 more.

Your bitterness towards Declan Kidney knows no end, Im beginning to think he taught you in school or something it appears so personal at this stage. Your outright refusal to acknowledge and credit his achievements is frankly sad. Claiming it would have happened anyway in spite of him is a rediculous argument because it didnt happen without him(ever at Munster and in 60/70yrs with ireland). i agree that he should have quit after the Word Cup.

What is unrealistic about Munster Fans expecting to be competing and winning the Heineken Cup. They have won it twice, been in the final another two times and semis/qtrs regularly. Munster have a home qtr which are always winnable and if they get through they have a home semi admittedly in Dublin. What Supporter wouldn't have realistic hopes of at least a final in those circumstances.

I dont know if Axel is ready or not for the job and maybe he wont get it but if he does he wont be worried by Leinster winning a third HEc if that happens. There is always big expectations of Munster every season and i dont believe that will change anytime soon. There are a lot of excellent candidates being speculated on and the only one to my Knowledge that Fans are rejecting outright is Eddie. Im not sure how i would feel about him as Munster manager but he is a Munster man.

The irony of it is that most munster fans have nothing but support for Connacht. I know that there is a small minority that only see red but every club has them. Munster Fans love Rugby and put their hands deep in their pockets regularly to support their team and by association the league in large numbers. They are not unique in that respect and far from it but they are one of the most sought after draws in Hec rugby from a revenue perspective. Teams regularly move their home games(including Leinster) to bigger venues to take full financial advantage of a game against munster. They have also supplied a lot of players to connacht over the years. Of course they have taken some as well but its far from one way traffic. If some Munster fans consider themselves the greatest supporters in the world inc. as u put it its probably because they have been billed that by media all over europe but especially in dublin over the years. some probably believe their own press.

By the way( your comment about munster fans not being able to find their arses) i was on clan terrace for Glasgow game and a group of about 10 Connacht fans close to me started shouting repeatedly at ref for a scrum back to connacht after glasgow missed a drop goal so they are every where but without them the crowd would be a lot smaller.

Overstrander, just for clarification, I decided on Rossie because i live in Roscommon with my Roscommon wife and Roscommon children. I also attend as many connacht home games as possible(8 so far this season). I am also a thomond park season ticket holder.

Actually Rossie I have family in the deep south, so no I don't remotely have an axe with all things south of Galway.

I do have a problem though with the attidude of a very vocal group of concieted Munster Rugby supporters and self styled rugby experts on MF.Com who campaigned heavily to oust McGahan voraciously and pretty nastily, the same group that rubbish the other provinces player/mangagement and supporters consistenly as inferior (depsite all evicence to the contrary) and insist it is only banter, and the same ones that have styled themselves "Best Supporters in the World" (it wasn't actually the Dublin based media nor Sky who started it, they simply bought into it).

The chip on the shoulder thing which defined Munster Rugby in the lead up to the first HEC win was fine when you're an underdog struggling against greater odds, however that hasn't been true of Munster Rugby for a long time and there is a core that just come across as petty, petulant and pretty ignorant...

Doesn't apply to all Munster Suppporters of course, and I don't think I suggested It did just that particular group with the unfortunate hand skills... :blink:

With regards to Kidney, it's fair to say successful coaches need two things - Luck and good timing. That's as much as he's getting from me. You've got your two HEC's so not much is going to convince you he can do any wrong and I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you. I would add though that if he's as good a coach as some supporters believe then he should be able to do a lot more with the talent available to him as Ireland coach, and as for next Lions coach it will take an extrordinary change of events for that to happen...

While Seapoint has perhaps gone slightly ott I think McGahan hasn't done a bad job at Munster all things considered. After the HC victory of 2008 he was coming in to an oldish well organised team with a very effective game plan but the game was changing and he tried to evolve Munster and their playing style as he needed to, Munster didn't have the personnel to survive playing 10 man rugby and with the maul being removed temporarily and other changes like not being able to take the ball back in 22 to clear McGahan had to evolve.

Looking through the team a few examples Horan and Hayes were on their last legs as serious players at this level. Flannery had a mountain of injury problems, Du Preez was a shrewd acquisition but Varley and Buckley were or never are going to part of a HC winning front row. IMO if McGahan had full control I believe he'd have got Buckley out the door a lot earlier.

Even teams like Treviso were coming to Thomond Park and shunting Munster off their own ball. Only now that Botha has come in has the scrum come back to being a steadying influence for Munster. Munster would have beaten Ospreys away last year if Botha was there and qualified for the q/f again.

In the 2nd row O'Callaghans is O'Callaghan, O'Connell had plenty of injuries, Mick O'Driscoll is a good slogger but thats hardly a front five for any major teams to fear. Donnacha Ryan only now starting to come through, Quinlan, Wallace etc. pushing on etc.

In the back row Leamy is another whose form and injuries have dogged him, Wallace and Quinlan were well in their 30's when McGahan came in, Foley had retired. He has done well bringing through the likes of Coughlan.

Also Munster lost a real quality player and leader in Tipoki. With players like Johnny Murphy and Denis Hurley regularly starting on HC sides I think McGahan deserves credit for keeping Munster so close to the fore front of European rugby as he has bar last season which was a dissapointment. The defeat to Harlequins was down to Munster not being up for the Challenge Cup or thinking they'd win it in their sleep imo, management and players have to take the hit on that one. Munster fans were right to be unhappy after that but they bounced back to win the league comfortably.

In all honesty can anyone think Anthony Foley is responsible for some of the excellent running rugby Munster showed in some of the HC games this year?

He has left Munster in good shape and has brought through any talent that was available to him at underage and has trusted them in big games. A lot of players owe Tony McGahan a huge debt for giving them his backing.

I wouldn't write off Munster for this years HC, with 2 home games to reach the final it'd be very foolish to write them off. I'd love to see Ulster do it though for Brian McLaughlins sake.

ouch! Seapoint, someone in red obvously upset you deeply in the past that you carry such bitterness towards allthings south of Galway!

McGahan wasnt popular with a lot of supporters because he persisted with a brand of rugby which wasnt suited to the players he had at the time and not because of his nationality.
You are right that he inherited an ageing team particularly in the pack but Munster has always evolved slowly and players were replaced in some cases almost unnoticed over the years.

He also got abuse from some quarters but Eric got that from a much smaller support base (with much lower expectations) when on losing run this season so Munster fans are far from unique there.

In relation to big money signings or lack of them, He brought in Botha and Du Preez both on big contracts and Dougie was also there on big money. The only difference was he spent the money in the front row where traditionally that was spent in the centre. He has also signed big bang casey who will be on decent coin. Downey too also and there is supposed to be at least 1 more.

Your bitterness towards Declan Kidney knows no end, Im beginning to think he taught you in school or something it appears so personal at this stage. Your outright refusal to acknowledge and credit his achievements is frankly sad. Claiming it would have happened anyway in spite of him is a rediculous argument because it didnt happen without him(ever at Munster and in 60/70yrs with ireland). i agree that he should have quit after the Word Cup.

What is unrealistic about Munster Fans expecting to be competing and winning the Heineken Cup. They have won it twice, been in the final another two times and semis/qtrs regularly. Munster have a home qtr which are always winnable and if they get through they have a home semi admittedly in Dublin. What Supporter wouldnt have realistic hopes of at least a final in those circumstances.

I dont know if Axel is ready or not for the job and maybe he wont get it but if he does he wont be worried by Leinster winning a third HEc if that happens. There is always big expectations of Munster every season and i dont believe that will change anytime soon. There are a lot of excellent candidates being speculated on and the only one to my Knowledge that Fans are rejecting outright is Eddie. Im not sure how i would feel about him as Munster manager but he is a Munster man.

The irony of it is that most munster fans have nothing but support for Connacht. I know that there is a small minority that only see red but every club has them. Munster Fans love Rugby and put their hands deep in their pockets regularly to support their team and by association the league in large numbers. They are not unique in that respect and far from it but they are one of the most sought after draws in Hec rugby from a revenue perspective. Teams regularly move their home games(including Leinster) to bigger venues to take full financial advantage of a game against munster. They have also supplied a lot of players to connacht over the years. Of course they have taken some as well but its far from one way traffic. If some Munster fans consider themselves the greatest supporters in the world inc. as u put it its probably because they have been billed that by media all over europe but especially in dublin over the years. some probably believe their own press.

By the way( your comment about munster fans not being able to find their arses) i was on clan terrace for Glasgow game and a group of about 10 Connacht fans close to me started shouting repeatedly at ref for a scrum back to connacht after glasgow missed a drop goal so they are every where but without them the crowd would be a lot smaller.

Overstrander, just for clarification, I decided on Rossie because i live in Roscommon with my Roscommon wife and Roscommon children. I also attend as many connacht home games as possible(8 so far this season). I am also a thomond park season ticket holder.

Having perused Patrick Powers offerings I've had a few quid on Mike Ruddock as Head Coach, Space for Axel on ticket?